Curse

Sausaletus Rex · Mar 08, 2005, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Shrapnel_Magnet was kind enough to provide us all with a look at the long march from Olde Ascalon to Lion's Arch. And we're kind enough to provide him with a thread for the discussion of it. Give the article a read here and be sure to let Shrapnel_Magnet know what you think.

Shrapnel_Magnet · Mar 08, 2005, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Thanks for putting it up... hope it helps someone out there... lol.

Also, I'd like to thank Ensign for some of the info that I had in there, he was very helpful when I had a few specific questions about various things. And, of course, Saus, for showing me where it was lacking and some suggestions on how to fix it.

March Hare · Mar 08, 2005, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Actually I was just talking about this kind of guide in the site suggestions. Not that I need it but there have definatly been a lot of questions about what to dof rom new players. Especially those who had joined the Acadamy befor they were ready on the last BWE.

A lot of info good job

Ensign · Mar 08, 2005, 04:06 AM // 04:06

I disagree with the 'Each and every character profession/class is good.' line. If you choose 'Necromancer' at the character creation screen, you have failed, and your character is crippled for life. I also disagree that you will regret not learning the Resurrection Signet. I think you will be doing handstands and backflips every time you go to change skills and don't have to scroll past that particular steaming pile in your skills list.

Skills are not crucial in the early parts of the game. You can easily survive off of, say, Flare and Orison of Healing on your march to Lion's Arch. Skill power fluctuates greatly early on - Conjure Phantasm is insane, for instance, and Flare isn't the colossal waste of energy that it turns into later.

I disagree on trading. Don't even bother trying to buy, sell, or otherwise interact on the secondary market as a low level character. You'll spend five minutes trying to sell ten iron for 15 gold instead of 10, and in those 5 minutes you would have gotten the extra 5 gold anyway, on top of progressing further in the game. Once you get halfway through the game you'll be getting 5 iron from a single salvage, and pulling down as much in 10 minutes as you did in an hour as a level 1 character. If you want to make money, get to where it's time efficient to do so quickly.

A bit more advise - in the newbie area, *everyone* is a melee character. I don't care if you're a Monk, grab the best sword and shield you can find, and hit things with them. At level 1 every class is the same, and swords/axes just kill faster than everything else available. The shield also provides a bit of defense to make your hit points last that much longer. Once you get to around level 5 or so you can start to consider switching to other options if your attributes support it, but until then it's all sword/shield work.

Be sure to gather the Skale Fins for the collector right outside of Ascalon City - he'll give you a belt pouch for five, easily the best investment you'll make in the entire game. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother with the collectors unless you just happen upon one that you have the materials for. You need to free up inventory space by selling / salvaging what you find, and +2 AL to a single piece of armor just isn't worth the effort - you'll be crafting better stuff as soon as you pass the academy, anyway.

Stockpile dyes like no one's business. These are your ticket to wealth in the outside world. While just about everything else you'll find is worth one, maybe two gold if you really fight for it, a single dye can sell for 50+ gold easily. Don't squander it, don't use 'em. Just sit on it until you get to Lion's Arch - there you can sell the dyes you've accumulated for a few hundred gold pieces, which should be plenty to get you going economically.

Peace,
-CxE

Whosa Skylore · Mar 08, 2005, 04:20 AM // 04:20

lol when i started reading it, theres were no post, now theres 3

well this is a great guide, it helps you along the way, but doesnt give yo much away, i played last BWE and asked my guildmates alot of questions and yet you still gave me basic information that i did know. i think this is an awsome guide, just what i needed a month ago

good job shrapnel!!

Davion · Mar 08, 2005, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Very cool..actually found that quite useful. most of the time I was in ascalon (seared) only ran into people trying to buy/trade/sell..or doing dance parties..(bleh) couldn't get any information about anything. Thanks shrapnel .. having spent most of last beta solo..that was quite helpful to read

FireMarshal · Mar 08, 2005, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Quote:

Remember that henchmen still "take" a share of the gold that is dropped, but all items are reserved for you

Is this really true? I thought henchies took some drops too....

Shrapnel_Magnet · Mar 08, 2005, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Nah, they leave items alone... but if you have 2 henchman and you try to pick up 3 gold... you'll only get 1 for yourself,

Dirty thieves.

Sausaletus Rex · Mar 08, 2005, 06:19 AM // 06:19

My understanding of things is that henchies do indeed get their share of items, just as they get a share of gold, and a share of xp, too. It's just you don't see the items they get actually drop, so you don't notice them actually picking them up, they just get whisked into the ether whenever they're created. That didn't use to be the case so just be thankful that you're spared the outrage of watching your henchmen pick up that rare max damage sword with no upgrades that you've been looking for while you happen to get your twelfth Rusty Scimitar...

MOOMANiBE · Mar 08, 2005, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Is this really true? I thought henchies took some drops too....

They do, it's just... sort of invisible. Essentially, the more henchmen you have, the less drops appear overall.

Shrapnel_Magnet · Mar 08, 2005, 06:34 AM // 06:34

err.. I stand corrected then, lol.

Ensign, I think that if you want to enjoy the game, one level at a time, Trading is not a bad investment of time. It familiarizes you with the trading system in place and you get can make a little cash. I don't think that it's such a bad thing to sell off some crafting materials... there are usually plenty of people lazy enough to buy them, rather than searching for them. I dunno, I've always had success when I do a little trading in Ascalon. Sure, I could probably make the same amount of money faster doing something more "productive", instead of interacting with other players... but on the whole, it's really a personal decision.

I do agree that once you've come close to Lion's Arch, the value of Iron and that Wood has all but dissapeared.

I also think that you have a personal hate on for the Res Signet. During PvE with random groups it's nothing short of essential. Even in the Ascalon Arena, I saved my team plenty of times. I would usually res the first fallen character if we didn't have a monk... since I wasn't usually tied up in Melee Combat or Healing. Sure, it resurrects a character who can be killed almost immediatly, but it's a skill that can't and shouldn't be overlooked.

I had to make due without it, this past event, as I forgot to look for it (assuming we could buy it later, which we should) and I lost a few missions because of it... wasted time, as you seem so strongly against. :P

Ensign · Mar 08, 2005, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrapnel_Magnet

It familiarizes you with the trading system in place and you get can make a little cash. I don't think that it's such a bad thing to sell off some crafting materials...

Oh, it isn't a bad thing to go and familiarize yourself with the trading interface - it's just that wasting your time on iron and wood is, well, wasting your time. You can sell them to the merchants for 1 gold each - you can get ~1.5 each if you try to sell them to other players. That's just not a good time investment.

Now, dyes, those are good time investments. Why? They're somewhat rare, and you can get good deals because people are cash starved. You can and will get dyes for half of what they'd run you in Lion's Arch, because people need the money and materials on their characters *now*. Buying a green dye for 5 gold and 10 iron isn't all that hard, and you've made a nice investment in the process. Think of dyes like savings bonds - you invest a bit of gold and junk in one now, and you can get a whole lot more later on when you can actually spend the money on something useful.

I'd also seriously consider buying unidentified rare armors and weapons. You can crack a rune or upgrade out of one of them once you get to Yak's Bend. Any rings that pop up, obviously, you should throw money at early and often.

But, in general, everything you're going to be dealing with in Ascalon City is going to be junk, so unless you're trying to become the king of junk you should be focusing upon moving on, not getting the best prices on your iron.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrapnel_Magnet

I also think that you have a personal hate on for the Res Signet.

You've got that right. It's a skill that should never be on the bar of a competitive character.

I don't think I need to explain what's so bad about it. I think I'll just drive in the final nail.

Assume, for a moment, that you're in a situation where you might want to use Res Signet - on an arena team without a monk, or a PvE team where the monks have been wiped out.

How badly do you want to spend another ten minutes of your life playing with this team?

If my PvE team can't keep the monks alive, it's time to go back to the staging area and get a new team. If my arena team doesn't have any sort of monk, I'm going to try and solo the other team, and if I can't I'll just roll the dice on a new team.

Carrying Resurrection Signet is conceding a defeat of sorts, making a statement that I feel that my team is too incompetent to get the job done. If you feel that way about a team, it's time to re-evaluate why you're a part of it.

Peace,
-CxE

Gaile Gray · Mar 08, 2005, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sausaletus Rex

My understanding of things is that henchies do indeed get their share of items, just as they get a share of gold, and a share of xp, too. It's just you don't see the items they get actually drop, so you don't notice them actually picking them up, they just get whisked into the ether whenever they're created. That didn't use to be the case so just be thankful that you're spared the outrage of watching your henchmen pick up that rare max damage sword with no upgrades that you've been looking for while you happen to get your twelfth Rusty Scimitar...

Saus, you are correct about that, yes. We did remove the notification (for the reason that you mention -- it's sad to see the rares go to some bloomin' henchie!

) but the items are still divvied up amongst all in the party, player character of NPC.

P.S. I have to say that I disagree with Ensign about the Res Signet, but to each his/her own.

Freyas · Mar 08, 2005, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Res signet is useful in PvE, at least in my opinion. It's not a skill that I'd generally want to take, but I've seen many missions where you're almost to the end of the game, and half the party gets wiped, including the monks. With some of the missions, this isn't necessarily due to a bad party- some creatures(wind riders are probably my worst nemesis) are extremely destructive, and bad situations due to patrol routes or unlucky spawns can be difficult to overcome. If you have 2 people without monk secondaries that survive, and neither of them have a resurrection signet, you get to start the mission over- even if you've spent 30+ minutes getting to that point. With a resurrection signet, you can be back on your feet and through the mission in another 5-10 minutes. I personally prefer getting through the mission- it's not like that one skill your sacrificing on your Warrior/Ranger is going to make a huge difference in whether or not your team succeeds in finishing the mission, whereas Resurrection Signet can.

Rushing Wind · Mar 08, 2005, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Shrapnel

I wouldn't consider myself a n00b but don't think I'm anywhere near educated enough on this game! Love it to death and appreciate your in-depth look at the level 1-10 build. Great insights and very useful. Now... if I can just start playing the game and putting your advice to use!

Aladdar · Mar 08, 2005, 02:43 PM // 14:43

I try never to go into PvE without the res signet.

I've had it save my group more than once. It's the only good skill for when your only monk croaks. I suggest that at least half your group take it. Now in PvP, it's a waste, but in PvE it's a savior sometimes.

Sausaletus Rex · Mar 08, 2005, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freyas

Res signet is useful in PvE, at least in my opinion. It's not a skill that I'd generally want to take, but I've seen many missions where you're almost to the end of the game, and half the party gets wiped, including the monks. With some of the missions, this isn't necessarily due to a bad party- some creatures(wind riders are probably my worst nemesis) are extremely destructive, and bad situations due to patrol routes or unlucky spawns can be difficult to overcome. If you have 2 people without monk secondaries that survive, and neither of them have a resurrection signet, you get to start the mission over- even if you've spent 30+ minutes getting to that point. With a resurrection signet, you can be back on your feet and through the mission in another 5-10 minutes.

The obvious question is what were your Monks doing getting killed in the first place? PvE isn't PvP they shouldn't - outside of low-levels where, as Ensign says, they should grab a sword/axe+shield and bang away like everyone else - be up in the front lines so they can take a pounding. If they're a dedicated healer they should be hanging back, letting their tanks and other party members screen them from damage and they should be ready to retreat at the first sign of trouble. As you say, it's not necessarily winning the battle, it's surviving the mission, so your characters with rezzes should be panicky little guys who'll bug out then return to revive everyone else when the danger's passed. You can work off the DP as you go along, the important thing is to be able to go along. If you're in a party where your Monk or healer with that effective, more than one use rez, catches a case of the deads, you're doing something wrong.

In PvE, you'll want that rezzing power on the character least likely to die. Oddly enough, that means you'll waste it putting it on your Wa/Mo and other non-healing */Mo because they should be concentrating on battling the enemy, therefore they'll be the most likely to get hurt and die, even if they are tanks. And you'd want it on your dedicated healers who'll be the last ones to enter the fight. That's the opposite of PvP play where a rez on a dedicated healer isn't going to see much play as they're going to be a primary target and go down quickly and, at the same time, every second they spend on those long casting time rezzes is another second they spend away from pumping out healing/defense. So, you stick your rezzes on your WaMo or your RaMo because they'll be among the last targeted by the opponent, in an ideal setting.

That said, the rezsig is important. Just at low-levels. In those first few missions, you should be bringing it. You won't have enough skills yet to crowd it out and the people you're playing with will likely still be learning their roles so there's a lot more chance of half the party dying. As you go along, though, your healers should start knowing how to do things and should be able to handle the rezzing all by themselves, giving you an extra slot to use. Since you only get eight each one is precious and while there's something to be said for the "panic button" there's also an argument to be made for making sure each of those slots is something you'll need to use a lot, something that reinforces your central strategy rather than something to let you recover from a bad situation.

chalt2 · Mar 08, 2005, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Shrapnel_Magnet, good article thank you.

Having done some extensive navigating through the missions and quests I can only imagine how cool the "real" game expierence is going to be.

Luggage · Mar 08, 2005, 03:53 PM // 15:53

You get it [res sig] by talking to the female monk on the left just outside the gate and then going back and getting a partner. (1st coop quest)
Takes 1 minut, max.

If you know the pre searing map you can probably make the fastest levels just by running around doing the quests up till level 5 at least.
250, 500 exp for running a bit talking to someone and teleporting back... that counts for a lot on the exp-bar in early levels. And the "try a second prof." quest are really fast and easy.

Now this will mean you are a bit overleveld for the first missions during post searing but... you'll quickly catch up to the proper missions.

Wish I had known about the collector wanting scales for the belt tho - the one I talked to wanted 5 "worn belts" and I never got a single worn belt drop in pre-searing

Ensign · Mar 08, 2005, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Doing every single mission in the newbie area is not to be understated. You can do most of 'em quickly, and they kick out experience regardless of your level - so hitting level 6 before entering the academy should be a non-issue. It's a pretty fun map, as far as PvE goes, and entering the academy when you're higher level than everyone else makes getting that win a bit faster (do you move on in the academy even if you lose the arena match? Can't say I have any experience with that...)

Saus pretty much summed up the Res Signet issue. If you're taking hits as a Monk in PvE regularly, you're doing something wrong. Everyone else takes hits, you keep them alive. It's a completely different mindset from what you have to do in PvP, but is that all surprising given how different the two gametypes are?

I actually think that Res Signet is *more* useful in PvP than PvE. Why? Because fast resses are much more valuable in PvP. A Wa/Mo casting Restore Life is a Power Drain waiting to happen, while Res Signet casts a full 3 seconds faster and doesn't get destroyed by every Mesmer with half a brain. I still wouldn't run it, but at least it has a place. In PvE I'd just slap Rebirth on a necklace or something.

(Assuming this isn't a level 6 group or whatever where each character has like two useful skills. May as well bring Res Signet, it isn't like you have something useful to do with that slot. But that's a different design problem.)

Peace,
-CxE